I missed the first 15 minutes of this message.
The speaker said, "If no one has accused you of saying God doesn’t care how you live, then it’s likely you’re not preaching grace." It would be better said, "If someone HAS accused you of saying God doesn’t care how you live, then it’s likely you’re not preaching grace the RIGHT way!" Where did ‘mid-Acts-ers’ get the idea that in order to preach grace, you cannot identify sin or say anything about it? Is their philosophy, ‘Don’t name or mention any sins, lest you offend someone’? Jesus spoke the truth, and ‘let the chips fall where they may’:
Matt 15:10-14 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Knowing God’s judgment to come at the end of the world on those that obey NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thess 1:8-10), it would be worth the risk of insult to warn the wicked (Ezek 3:18-19, 33:8-9), instead of feeling like we are trying to run their life because we opened our mouth:
Matt 13:40-42 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
We ought not be insensitive, but discerning, on how to really ‘help’ others.
It is not being bossy to give instruction from the scriptures:
Jude 1:22-23 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
The speaker expressed a typical ‘mid-Acts’ viewpoint, that being in a church is worse than being in a bar, because people in church think they are okay, and people in bars know they’re not. That kind of perspective is an arrogant attitude over other Christians that love the Lord and seek to please Him, even though they have some incorrect theology.
Overall, the speaker filled his time reiterating ‘mid-Acts’ doctrinal points. But there are no verses for statements, such as, ‘The distinctive ministry of Paul was that he preached a unique gospel,’ and ‘The body of Christ does not start in Acts 2, but in Acts 9.’
I agree that liberty can be misinterpreted, but I believe that ‘mid-Acts-ers’ are the ones who abuse it.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Wednesday, July 21, 2010
Conf. Tuesday Messages # 1 and 2 on 7-20-10
I was working and unable to listen to either of these messages.
Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Conf. Monday Message # 5 on 7-19-10
The speaker did not use this passage, but his message was about the blood of the new testament (also Heb 9:14-15):
1 Cor 11:23-26 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ believe the new testament was for Israel (Jer 31:31). They do not want to admit we have anything to do with the new testament, though Paul recorded that it is our ministry:
2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
As I was shocked on Saturday evening, by the opening message having SO MANY VERSES OUTSIDE of PAUL .... so it was again with this speaker. Something seems to have had a positive effect on them, to cause them to SPREAD OUT in the WHOLE word of God, rather than CONFINE their verses in typical ‘mid-Acts’ fashion to only those of PAUL. Maybe they noticed how many times PAUL referenced the old testament passages! Maybe someone called their attention and pointed out all the, "It is written," verses of PAUL! I was both surprised and refreshed by their adventures where no ‘mid-Acts-er’ has gone before! Though I am no longer a 'mid-Acts-er', I never heard such use of ‘all’ scripture during all my nearly 30 years at their conferences combined. It was definitely a big step in the right direction:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The speaker’s detailed description of Christ’s sacrifice was comprehensive, grave, and sobering.
I am just sorry that he is unwilling to accept the title of his office of a bishop, and in so doing, he discredits the KJV. He and his ‘co-pastor’ ‘ministry associate’ prefer to be known as ‘teaching elders,’ rather than the bishops they truly are. Thus, they are neither KJV, nor Pauline, but unfaithful to God’s word. Being a bishop is a good work, why avoid GOD’s name for who you are? This day’s messages were focused on one’s "Identity in Christ" .... it is quite sad that the bishops want to teach you what ‘your identity’ is, but refuse ‘their own identity’ GOD gave them:
1 Tim 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
1 Cor 11:23-26 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ believe the new testament was for Israel (Jer 31:31). They do not want to admit we have anything to do with the new testament, though Paul recorded that it is our ministry:
2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
As I was shocked on Saturday evening, by the opening message having SO MANY VERSES OUTSIDE of PAUL .... so it was again with this speaker. Something seems to have had a positive effect on them, to cause them to SPREAD OUT in the WHOLE word of God, rather than CONFINE their verses in typical ‘mid-Acts’ fashion to only those of PAUL. Maybe they noticed how many times PAUL referenced the old testament passages! Maybe someone called their attention and pointed out all the, "It is written," verses of PAUL! I was both surprised and refreshed by their adventures where no ‘mid-Acts-er’ has gone before! Though I am no longer a 'mid-Acts-er', I never heard such use of ‘all’ scripture during all my nearly 30 years at their conferences combined. It was definitely a big step in the right direction:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The speaker’s detailed description of Christ’s sacrifice was comprehensive, grave, and sobering.
I am just sorry that he is unwilling to accept the title of his office of a bishop, and in so doing, he discredits the KJV. He and his ‘co-pastor’ ‘ministry associate’ prefer to be known as ‘teaching elders,’ rather than the bishops they truly are. Thus, they are neither KJV, nor Pauline, but unfaithful to God’s word. Being a bishop is a good work, why avoid GOD’s name for who you are? This day’s messages were focused on one’s "Identity in Christ" .... it is quite sad that the bishops want to teach you what ‘your identity’ is, but refuse ‘their own identity’ GOD gave them:
1 Tim 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Conf. Monday Message # 4 on 7-19-10
I was unable to listen to much of the speaker’s sermon, as I had business to attend during the time of his message. Therefore, I have no comments on it.
Conf. Monday Message # 3 on 7-19-10
The speaker was very difficult for me to listen to for the following 2 reasons:
1) He wrote a book about the authority and inerrancy of the King James Version of the Bible, but he does not honor God’s word regarding the office he holds:
1 Tim 3:1 (KJV) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Evidently, he does not believe being a bishop is a good work, since he substitutes The Living Bible’s title instead of using the KJV:
1 Tim 3:1 (TLB) It is a true saying that if a man wants to be a pastor he has a good ambition.
The Living Bible replaces the KJV’s ‘bishop’ with ‘pastor’ every time (1 Tim 3:1 and 2; Titus 1:7, and Phil 1:1).
2) Although the speaker is a teacher by profession, his repetitive speech pattern was extremely distracting. I do not think he was actually inviting the congregation to audibly respond to his questions. But each time he asked, “What?” .... I made a tally mark. I did NOT count ANY time that those words were used in a normal interrogative sentence. Here is an example of how he ‘preached’ his sermon, “The law of _what?_ hath made me _what?_ from the _what?_ of _what?_.” He asked, “What?” 102 times; “How?” 2 times; “Who?” 13 times; and “Where?” 12 times.
Other than those two very high hurdles, the content of his message and his thoughtfulness of its subject were good.
1) He wrote a book about the authority and inerrancy of the King James Version of the Bible, but he does not honor God’s word regarding the office he holds:
1 Tim 3:1 (KJV) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Evidently, he does not believe being a bishop is a good work, since he substitutes The Living Bible’s title instead of using the KJV:
1 Tim 3:1 (TLB) It is a true saying that if a man wants to be a pastor he has a good ambition.
The Living Bible replaces the KJV’s ‘bishop’ with ‘pastor’ every time (1 Tim 3:1 and 2; Titus 1:7, and Phil 1:1).
2) Although the speaker is a teacher by profession, his repetitive speech pattern was extremely distracting. I do not think he was actually inviting the congregation to audibly respond to his questions. But each time he asked, “What?” .... I made a tally mark. I did NOT count ANY time that those words were used in a normal interrogative sentence. Here is an example of how he ‘preached’ his sermon, “The law of _what?_ hath made me _what?_ from the _what?_ of _what?_.” He asked, “What?” 102 times; “How?” 2 times; “Who?” 13 times; and “Where?” 12 times.
Other than those two very high hurdles, the content of his message and his thoughtfulness of its subject were good.
Conf. Monday Message # 2 on 7-19-10
The speaker said, "Welcome to reality, where the word of God is rightly divided. For us today, the Bible begins in Romans."
Shouldn’t he at least back up to WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS is the BEGINNING of the gospel of Jesus Christ? Oh, no! He won’t do that because he is a ‘mid-Acts-er’ who believes PAUL preached a DIFFERENT gospel of Jesus Christ .... for the speaker, "the Bible BEGINS in ROMANS!"
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Well now, since the speaker thinks the Bible begins in Romans .... he must believe ‘the gospel of GOD concerning His Son Jesus Christ’ (Rom 1:1-3) .... instead of ‘the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God’ (Mark 1:1) .... which, to a ‘mid-Acts-er’, are DIFFERENT gospels:
Rom 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
The speaker put himself in a Catch 22 because PAUL wrote that ‘the gospel of God’ (which he was separated unto) was promised afore by God’s prophets in the Bible .... which the speaker just said didn’t BEGIN until Romans.
The speaker would have another problem with PAUL’s (beginning in Romans) ‘gospel of God’ because PETER also wrote about ‘the gospel of God’ (1 Pet 4:17), and ‘mid-Acts-er’ don’t allow Paul and Peter to have the same gospel .... even though Paul was quite clear about the penalty for that:
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
In Gal 2:7-9, there is a specific Greek word for the words ‘to’ and ‘toward’ showing Peter and Paul went different directions, but they did not have different gospels. If Peter was preaching a different gospel than Paul preached, he would be accursed.
The scriptures show Peter and Paul preached the SAME gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-11.
1 Cor 15:11 Therefore whether it were I (Paul) or they (including Peter from 1 Cor 15:5), so we preach (the gospel from 1 Cor 15:3-4), and so ye believed.
1 Cor 3:22-23 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas (Peter), or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us (Paul, Apollos, Peter), as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
The speaker said Romans chapters 9-11 introduced the concept of ‘right division’ and ‘who is Israel, where is Israel, and you’re not Israel’.
Shouldn’t he at least back up (beginning in Romans) to WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS about who is the Jew?
Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Maybe Paul could ‘rephrase’ that. Who is Israel?
Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Shouldn’t the speaker at least back up to see Who CHRIST is in us, rather than concentrate on who WE are in Him? The center of attention ought to be CHRIST FIRST, not us:
Col 1:25-27 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
The speaker said, "You know how I know I’m saved? The word of God says I am." Book, chapter, and verse, please!
The speaker said, "If you want to see Jesus Christ, just go look in the mirror." When Jesus dwelt among men, people were able to see Him, in the physical:
John 12:21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
Jesus can be seen now only with the eyes of faith when we believe that He died for us .... but not in a mirror:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
We look for Him to come from heaven and change our bodies to be like His:
Phil 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,
when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
for we shall see him as he is.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
When Jesus returns in glory (Matt 24:30), everyone will see Him then (2 Thess 1:7-10). The world will know:
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
The speaker said, "Abortions - they’re His. Modern genocide works out to the glory of God. It’s done in His good pleasure. He gets them - they’re His." I was deeply troubled by the speaker’s flippant words and insensitivity about abortion.
The speaker said, "The first thing you do when you learn the grace message is to go back and tell everybody they’re wrong." What does that tell you about ‘the grace message’? GOD's grace does not produce that attitude, but 'mid-Acts-hyper-dispensationalism' does.
The speaker said, "Romans 6 has a great infamous history." The dictionary defines ‘infamous’ as having a very bad reputation; notorious; in disgrace or dishonor causing or deserving a bad reputation; scandalous; outrageous.
I thought the speaker’s ‘big picture’ and ‘heavenly view’ lacked focus. He did excessive story-telling instead of Biblical exposition.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Shouldn’t he at least back up to WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS is the BEGINNING of the gospel of Jesus Christ? Oh, no! He won’t do that because he is a ‘mid-Acts-er’ who believes PAUL preached a DIFFERENT gospel of Jesus Christ .... for the speaker, "the Bible BEGINS in ROMANS!"
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Well now, since the speaker thinks the Bible begins in Romans .... he must believe ‘the gospel of GOD concerning His Son Jesus Christ’ (Rom 1:1-3) .... instead of ‘the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God’ (Mark 1:1) .... which, to a ‘mid-Acts-er’, are DIFFERENT gospels:
Rom 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
The speaker put himself in a Catch 22 because PAUL wrote that ‘the gospel of God’ (which he was separated unto) was promised afore by God’s prophets in the Bible .... which the speaker just said didn’t BEGIN until Romans.
The speaker would have another problem with PAUL’s (beginning in Romans) ‘gospel of God’ because PETER also wrote about ‘the gospel of God’ (1 Pet 4:17), and ‘mid-Acts-er’ don’t allow Paul and Peter to have the same gospel .... even though Paul was quite clear about the penalty for that:
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
In Gal 2:7-9, there is a specific Greek word for the words ‘to’ and ‘toward’ showing Peter and Paul went different directions, but they did not have different gospels. If Peter was preaching a different gospel than Paul preached, he would be accursed.
The scriptures show Peter and Paul preached the SAME gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-11.
1 Cor 15:11 Therefore whether it were I (Paul) or they (including Peter from 1 Cor 15:5), so we preach (the gospel from 1 Cor 15:3-4), and so ye believed.
1 Cor 3:22-23 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas (Peter), or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us (Paul, Apollos, Peter), as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
The speaker said Romans chapters 9-11 introduced the concept of ‘right division’ and ‘who is Israel, where is Israel, and you’re not Israel’.
Shouldn’t he at least back up (beginning in Romans) to WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS about who is the Jew?
Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Maybe Paul could ‘rephrase’ that. Who is Israel?
Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Shouldn’t the speaker at least back up to see Who CHRIST is in us, rather than concentrate on who WE are in Him? The center of attention ought to be CHRIST FIRST, not us:
Col 1:25-27 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
The speaker said, "You know how I know I’m saved? The word of God says I am." Book, chapter, and verse, please!
The speaker said, "If you want to see Jesus Christ, just go look in the mirror." When Jesus dwelt among men, people were able to see Him, in the physical:
John 12:21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
Jesus can be seen now only with the eyes of faith when we believe that He died for us .... but not in a mirror:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
We look for Him to come from heaven and change our bodies to be like His:
Phil 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,
when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
for we shall see him as he is.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
When Jesus returns in glory (Matt 24:30), everyone will see Him then (2 Thess 1:7-10). The world will know:
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
The speaker said, "Abortions - they’re His. Modern genocide works out to the glory of God. It’s done in His good pleasure. He gets them - they’re His." I was deeply troubled by the speaker’s flippant words and insensitivity about abortion.
The speaker said, "The first thing you do when you learn the grace message is to go back and tell everybody they’re wrong." What does that tell you about ‘the grace message’? GOD's grace does not produce that attitude, but 'mid-Acts-hyper-dispensationalism' does.
The speaker said, "Romans 6 has a great infamous history." The dictionary defines ‘infamous’ as having a very bad reputation; notorious; in disgrace or dishonor causing or deserving a bad reputation; scandalous; outrageous.
I thought the speaker’s ‘big picture’ and ‘heavenly view’ lacked focus. He did excessive story-telling instead of Biblical exposition.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Conf. Monday Message # 1 on 7-19-10
The speaker used a popular ‘mid-Acts’ phrase, ‘a saint of the Most High God’. Ever wonder where that came from? Did PAUL use that term? Or did the speaker go OUTSIDE of PAUL to get that 'title'? Oh, no! ‘Mid-Acts’ horror! It is in DANIEL .... 4 times .... and worse yet, it is in the CONTEXT of the LAST DAYS and the END of the WORLD and the COMING / APPEARING / RETURN of the LORD back to EARTH (also see Matt 24:3):
Dan 7:13-28 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (WHICH saints? The saints of the most High? from vs. 18?)
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Could these be the saints who will judge the WORLD, of whom PAUL wrote?
1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Let’s continue in Daniel:
(Dan 7:) 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
It was JUDGMENTAL of the speaker to find it "funny and interesting" "to go to a mall and watch people" or "sit in a room" .... so he could "pick out saved - or - not saved" (assuming by outward appearance and behavior, since he did not mention talking to any of them).
1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
The speaker equated ‘departing from the faith’ with "not living in the doctrine laid out by Paul" .... and .... "to start teaching other things OUTSIDE of Paul’s epistles as doctrines for today."
FYI, the same Greek word that is translated "shall depart from" in 1 Tim 4:1 is also used about withdrawing from GOD in Heb 3:12:
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Departing from ‘the faith’ and from ‘the living God’ .... are NOT AT ALL the same as what the speaker indicated was departing from ‘MID-ACTS DOCTRINE’! Again, his JUDGMENTAL attitude was offensive.
May I ‘step outside of Paul’ to call to remembrance 2 verses from Matthew?
Matt 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
FYI, also, the same Greek word in 1 Tim 4:1 and Heb 3:12, is the same word that is translated ‘fall away’ in connection to ‘time of temptation’:
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root (also see Rom 11:17), which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Jesus warned of falling away from the faith, from God .... denying Him .... because of the threat of one’s physical life being taken:
Matt 10:28, 33 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
PAUL gave the same warning as Jesus did .... if ‘we’ deny Him:
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:
if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Oh, speaker .... if we find a verse that is OUTSIDE of PAUL .... may we still use it .... if we can find a verse INSIDE of PAUL that teaches the same thing? Or do they have to be DIFFERENT things .... even though they are the SAME WORDS .... since ‘mid-Acts’ doctrine teaches ‘the last days’ of PAUL are ‘DIFFERENT last days’ than ‘the last days’ of PETER .... and the ‘coming/appearing of the Lord’ in PAUL is ‘a DIFFERENT coming/appearing of the Lord’ than in PETER?
PAUL PROPHESIED a falling away .... a forsaking .... an apostasy .... a departing from the faith, from God .... combined with the son of perdition being revealed. In that context, PAUL told the saints not to be deceived (also see Matt 24:4,11 and Luke 21:8):
2 Thess 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
It will be a world-wide tempting time:
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The temptation and tribulation will be great .... to save one’s own physical life (even though just for 3-1/2 years), to be able to do any business or buy groceries, to deny the faith and the Lord, to worship the image of the beast, and to receive his mark:
Rev 13:15-17 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Jesus encouraged people to endure affliction and persecution: (also see Mark 4:17, 2 Thess 1:4-10, 1 Pet 2:19-23):
Mark 8:35-38 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
The speaker’s topic was to ‘Walk Intelligently’ .... well, it is better to be prepared by rightly dividing the word of truth with a correct understanding about the resurrection and coming of the Lord .... than to have one’s faith subverted or destroyed:
2 Tim 2:15-18 Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Dan 7:13-28 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (WHICH saints? The saints of the most High? from vs. 18?)
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Could these be the saints who will judge the WORLD, of whom PAUL wrote?
1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Let’s continue in Daniel:
(Dan 7:) 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
It was JUDGMENTAL of the speaker to find it "funny and interesting" "to go to a mall and watch people" or "sit in a room" .... so he could "pick out saved - or - not saved" (assuming by outward appearance and behavior, since he did not mention talking to any of them).
1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
The speaker equated ‘departing from the faith’ with "not living in the doctrine laid out by Paul" .... and .... "to start teaching other things OUTSIDE of Paul’s epistles as doctrines for today."
FYI, the same Greek word that is translated "shall depart from" in 1 Tim 4:1 is also used about withdrawing from GOD in Heb 3:12:
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Departing from ‘the faith’ and from ‘the living God’ .... are NOT AT ALL the same as what the speaker indicated was departing from ‘MID-ACTS DOCTRINE’! Again, his JUDGMENTAL attitude was offensive.
May I ‘step outside of Paul’ to call to remembrance 2 verses from Matthew?
Matt 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
FYI, also, the same Greek word in 1 Tim 4:1 and Heb 3:12, is the same word that is translated ‘fall away’ in connection to ‘time of temptation’:
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root (also see Rom 11:17), which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Jesus warned of falling away from the faith, from God .... denying Him .... because of the threat of one’s physical life being taken:
Matt 10:28, 33 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
PAUL gave the same warning as Jesus did .... if ‘we’ deny Him:
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:
if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Oh, speaker .... if we find a verse that is OUTSIDE of PAUL .... may we still use it .... if we can find a verse INSIDE of PAUL that teaches the same thing? Or do they have to be DIFFERENT things .... even though they are the SAME WORDS .... since ‘mid-Acts’ doctrine teaches ‘the last days’ of PAUL are ‘DIFFERENT last days’ than ‘the last days’ of PETER .... and the ‘coming/appearing of the Lord’ in PAUL is ‘a DIFFERENT coming/appearing of the Lord’ than in PETER?
PAUL PROPHESIED a falling away .... a forsaking .... an apostasy .... a departing from the faith, from God .... combined with the son of perdition being revealed. In that context, PAUL told the saints not to be deceived (also see Matt 24:4,11 and Luke 21:8):
2 Thess 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
It will be a world-wide tempting time:
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The temptation and tribulation will be great .... to save one’s own physical life (even though just for 3-1/2 years), to be able to do any business or buy groceries, to deny the faith and the Lord, to worship the image of the beast, and to receive his mark:
Rev 13:15-17 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Jesus encouraged people to endure affliction and persecution: (also see Mark 4:17, 2 Thess 1:4-10, 1 Pet 2:19-23):
Mark 8:35-38 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
The speaker’s topic was to ‘Walk Intelligently’ .... well, it is better to be prepared by rightly dividing the word of truth with a correct understanding about the resurrection and coming of the Lord .... than to have one’s faith subverted or destroyed:
2 Tim 2:15-18 Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
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